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When did the war start...really start?

When did the war start...really start?

Postby lovechild » Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:46 am

I am wondering this when did this war even start. I know that President Bush #1 started it a looong time ago. But, what I didn't realize or remember? until this evening is that the war didn't end there and start again with Pres. Bush #2. My favorite President, Clinton also played a hand in it (December 1998). Clinton too was looking for WMD. It never really ended. This has been ongoing for a long, long, long time. Will it ever end?
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Re: When did the war start...really start?

Postby bob_rx2000 » Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:16 am

Sheesh, Lovechild, you'll have to be more specific... What war do you mean?
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Re: When did the war start...really start?

Postby jroyale » Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:25 am

a book that I suggest you read: Ghost Wars, Stephan Coll I think the author is. This war in its simplest terms was really begun in the early 80's under Reagan. The whole Middle East plays a part, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Soviet Union, Israel, Palestine. We have been fighting this for a long time.
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Re: When did the war start...really start?

Postby lovechild » Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:46 am

bob_rx2000 wrote:Sheesh, Lovechild, you'll have to be more specific... What war do you mean?

I am talking about this whole middle east mess!

Thanks for the suggestion, I will definately have to hunt it down!
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Re: When did the war start...really start?

Postby JC2 » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:09 pm

First Gulf War ended- Bush Sr.
US abandons the Shiites and Kurds who wanted to rise up against Saddam.
Saddam Massacres 100,000's of people in a mini ethnic cleansing in retaliation.
Bill Clinton elected
Saddam pays each suicide bomber families in Palestine a 25,000 martyr fee.
Iraq sanctioned by the UN- Must allow WMD inspections.
Iraq oil for food program starts, UN allows Iraq to sell OIL rations to other countries, must spend proceeds on humanitarian aid. Iraq buys UN Humanitarian aid, sells items on the black market.
UN officials get kick backs for oil purchases.
Iraq denies UN weapons Inspections, Bill Clinton offers token jester by launching a tomahawk cruise missile.
UN still thwarted by inspections, Iraq denies access.
We do nothing, UN begin series of resolutions warning Iraq that Serious consequences if inspections are hampered, the cat and mouse game continues.
Bill Clinton bogged down by whitewater and mystery suicide of a travel aid.
Bill clinton Sex scandal begins to gain momentum, babes start to come forward exclaiming sexual harassment while he was a Gov.
Iraq county is falling deeper and deeper into turmoil, medical aid dwindles, ethnic preference for medical facilities begins. UN ships medical aid, but allows Iraq to distribute, Iraq sells aid to the black market.
UN finds token evidence of possible mobile chemical labs, trace evidence found on milk trucks and other non military vehicles.
Saddam build his wealth via UN black market profits, invites US media in to show everyone how the sanctions are killing innocent people.
UN does nothing.
Spy satellites show convoys of trucks moving into Syria from Iraq. UN does nothing.
Bill Clinton blows up suspected chemical plant via tomahawk, it was a aspirin factory.
Al Gore loses to Bush Jr.
9/11 happens.
We invade Afghanistan, fail to secure border with Syria and Pakistan. Bin Laden escapes.
US seeks permission from UN to carry out serious consequence actions threatened in numerous UN resolutions, Presents what we now know was thin evidence of WMD ( except the world does know he used them on Iran and the Kurds), UN tells us to take a hike, because they are a upstanding organization.
We invade Iraq, attempt to fight a humanitarian war.
The rest as we know it is history.
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Re: When did the war start...really start?

Postby bob_rx2000 » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:09 pm

Hmmm... to say that the current middle-east war started under Reagan isn't remotely correct. If we're to limit ourselves to the warfare related directly or indirectly to the renewal of the Jewish state in the middle east, then it began in the late 1930s when the Zionist movement spawned a number of radical groups that tried to drive the British out of what they referred to as Palestine to allow the formation of Israel. Even Hamas has deeper roots than the 1980s as the Israelis (that is right, the Israelis) sponsored Hamas as a counterweight to Yassar Arrafat and his PLO movement and its offshoots in the 1970s. This is, alas, a question that is really muddled, and Lovechild, if you want to get the root of the this particular war, go back to the foundation of Zionism, which is the result of the Dreyfus Trial in France in the late 19th century and the Balfour Declaration of the Brits.

Now, what about the radical Islamic types in Iran and Iraq (I-rant & I-rave?)... I suspect a good deal of what we see in both of those countries is more the post-colonialism politics of being anti-British than being anti-Israel, except that Israel, as a member in good standing of Western Civilization, falls in the group generally hated...

Now, would you care to talk about the war between India and Pakistan over Kashmir, or between the Sri Lankians and Tamils, or the various conflicts in the former colonies of France in Southeast Asia, or the low-level conflicts in other areas including South America, or the war in Mexico, or the hidden wars going on in the Balkins or those in the various nations spun off at the collapse of the Soviet Union? There are lots and lots of wars going on... Plus, of course, the endemic conflicts that seem to never end in Africa...
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Re: When did the war start...really start?

Postby raycyrx » Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:07 pm

I'd say it started with the Munich Olympics as that was the first major use of terrorism as a tactic.
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Re: When did the war start...really start?

Postby backstagedee » Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:23 pm

Wow, That was really the first...? Ever? I somehow find that tough to buy into.
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Re: When did the war start...really start?

Postby jroyale » Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:32 pm

but Bob, the U.S. direct involvement in Mideast conflict really didn't get too far underway until basically the 50's in supporting Iran's Shah Coup. At least in supplying money for arms. But to look back, perhaps American involvement in Saudi Oil in the 30's is more appropriate as the Bin Laden family has so very well stated. You seem to have a great working knowledge in these matters, help enlighten me.
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Re: When did the war start...really start?

Postby raycyrx » Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:00 am

backstagedee wrote:Wow, That was really the first...? Ever? I somehow find that tough to buy into.
Like I said... first MAJOR use.
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